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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 5, 2011 10:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

It's really an indisputable fact that that the playing style of the Allman Brothers Band was much tighter and focused than that of the Grateful Dead. The Allman's perfotmances sound a great deal more polished than those of the Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead rarely "locked-in" with laser focused intensity a la the Allmans. But this does not make the Allmans any better than the Grateful Dead, or their live music superior.

I enjoy the music of the Grateful Dead a great deal more than that of the Allmans. There is a reason that we collect GD shows. Do the performances of the Allmans vary as much as those of the Grateful Dead. Is one Allman Brothers Band live rendition of "In Memory of Elizabeth Reed" or "Statestboro Blues" that different from any other?

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jun 7, 2011 3:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Cliff , This whole locked in phrase was eating at me ever since this post started..I looked but couldn't find it but I'm sure all this came from the liner notes from the closing of the Fillmore East by the Allmans. It wasn't Butch Trucks who wrote the notes but I'm sure this is where it's picked up on. The fact that a professional musician has an opinion should not be that hard to grasp whether or not you agree w/ it or not. I've said many times that they basically sucked and wasn't worth the $ or time put in .Then you have the gem of shows that just flow ,no noodling,no tuning ,no ridiculous banter or unwanted feedback but the true unfiltered flowing music you knew was going to happen, yes those were the shows worth going to see and for me a real dick of a critic they have taken places I've never been before and certainly would call most of that being locked in.

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Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jun 5, 2011 1:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Here's Robert Christgau's review of the allman's "At Fillmore East":

Four sides comprising seven titles--only two of them repeated (ad infinitum) from the band's studio albums--and they sure do boogie. But even if Duane Allman plus Dickey Betts does equal Jerry Garcia, the Dead know roads are for getting somewhere. That is, Garcia (not to bring in John Coltrane) always takes you someplace unexpected on a long solo. I guess the appeal here is the inevitability of it all. B-

This succinctly summarizes by feelings about the Allmans vs. the Dead. The A.B.s are at their best with shorter jams (I'm talking 10-15 minutes) with lots of solo trading. None of the individual members could hold my attention for more than a few minutes (even Duane). Elizabeth Reed from the above mentioned album is a great cut, but the soloing, although very skillful, is pretty straightforward rhythmically and harmonically.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jun 5, 2011 1:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

I am fairly certain that if the GD were of the mindset to rehearse a show and play it the same way every night they too could have been much tighter and had produced a far more polished product,at which point they no longer would have been the GD.
Garcia in his prime was far more interesting and all around superior player to the highly over rated Mr. Clapton,as for the tandem of Lesh/Kreutzman in relation to Bruce/Baker I see that as a push.While Cream's music was good it was just straight ahead rock and roll,and how hard is that.I don't hear anything that Bruce/Baker tandem played that Lesh/Kreutzman couldn't handle.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 5, 2011 4:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

If you can get ahold of tapes of live shows, the way JBruce handled a bass was unreal. The fashion in which he could bend notes, literally, was breath-taking...this doesn't always come thru in standard releases. I've known two serious bass players in my life, both of whom were DEAD heads first and foremost, and fashioned much of their style after Phil; nonetheless, in recent discussions with them they both agreed that JB stood apart, almost to the degree Jimi did with lead players. Only two twits, I know, but they have made a living (modest, no doubt) playing the instrument...FWIW. I take your pt that it was straight up blues based R&R, and limited in that respect.

This is not to say we don't all like the DEAD more, but any discussion among serious musical sorts discussing the 60s ALWAYS includes EC, JB & GB, and though it pains us, not necessarily JG (but they should), PL (probably should), and BK (not so sure). A number of bass players in successful bands from the 80s mention JB as an inspiration (in my readings anyhow) but not our man Phil...not sure why, but perhaps worth considering.

Still, overall body of work? Of course we find more to the DEAD. But I am talking a narrow aspect of pure skill/talent.

We'll have to agree to disagree on BK vs GB; I am not sure that is even up for discussion unless we go "apples and oranges" on the taste biz...

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jun 5, 2011 5:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

WT,I wasn't so much down playing Jack and Ginger's abilities as touting Phil and Bill's.I fully recognize Jack Bruce's brilliance and over the years have seen him perform in different types of musical settings and acquit him self quite nicely showing great versatility.As you said about Ginger we will have to agree to disagree.

For me this topic wasn't so much about which music is better,but once again another jerkoff like Butch Trucks speaking about something he is obviously unqualified to comment on.Just because you play an instrument doesn't automatically qualify you as an expert on all musical topics,Gene Simmons and Kenny G are and I don't care to hear their opinions.I don't think he would enjoy Weir saying the Allman's music is well practiced,derivative horseshit and that the only talented members are dead(Duane,Berry),kicked out(Dicky),or hired guns(Warren,Derek).As a fellow musician who knows these guys for 40 years and last year had them join (Weir,Phil) his band onstage you would think he could keep these petty remarks to himself.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 5, 2011 8:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Yeah, thinking through it again, there could be some aspects to it that are a bit over the top (BT's comments); I was taking it lightly, in the spirit of many that critized the boys for being loose, etc--ie, giving him the benefit of the doubt, motivation wise. And frankly, I don't know squat about him vis-a-vis axes to grind or general comments that might peg him as a hyper-critical sort regarding the DEAD.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Jun 5, 2011 9:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

My point exactly! I understand LiAs point that he may be speaking vaguely, and we don't really understand the context of what he's saying necessarily. But to me it comes off as the arrogance of someone whom just because they are a musician, their opinion is garnering more respect than it merits. Defensive maybe, but thats just my two cents!

This post was modified by clementinescaboose on 2011-06-06 04:21:13

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 5, 2011 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Bingo; and of course, this is the context in which he made his comment, I am sure.

A la the Broken Record, I have all the CREAM shows, and Jack, Ginger and Eric would certainly agree with Butch BUT as with the ABB, as amazing as what CREAM could do, it is something you can only listen to for a few yrs straight (har) before you've heard it all. They are much tighter, and would view, as they noted, that the DEAD were not in their league, and that is true, like it or not.

Endless noodling, wanderings, latter era lack of energy and innovation, etc., were (oftentimes) hallmarks of the band we love, so of course other great musical talents will scratch their heads at the long time interest and hero worship.

I am certain JBruce could have done anything with a bass that Phil could, but lacking the other components of the DEAD on stage (and absent the interest, no doubt), he didn't, but that's what being unique and individualistic (so critical in all 'artforms') is all about it seems to me.

Hope all is well with the fish, and your pursuits of them, D; been a while...

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 5, 2011 2:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Butch Trucks Quote (Dead-Related)

Catching some Striped Bass WT, but nothing very big. Just started a new gig last week, been listening to plenty of 80's Grateful Dead.

The new boat I'm running has Serius but the mix I have been hearing has been disapointing. Lots of studio music and plenty of later era junk :(